2007-10-01 [Mom]: Question...should this be midevel dragon,oriental or just our imagination?

2007-10-01 [Mom]: Kewl...Thanks! 

2007-10-04 [Phoenix_fire34]: i only submitted a drawing, should i have also written something too?

2007-10-18 [nehirwen]: for I like Nymphs, I've prepared ECM Nymph, is that oke?

2007-10-18 [nehirwen]: that's okey, and if there is another creature first, I'm willing to make those wiki's too ^^

2007-10-18 [windowframe]: It would be a very long poll if it were to include all mythical creatures. :P

2007-10-18 [nehirwen]: yes, I did look at The Creature List to find the Nymph, that's why I made it, I didn't knew about the poll. *looks at poll* isn't it an idea for me to make the elf or the fairy/fae ecm contest?

2007-10-18 [nehirwen]: oops, sorry ;) and all the others of the poll too?

2007-10-19 [nehirwen]: okey! and you're welcom

2007-10-27 [xido]: I would love to see all sorts of dragons from all sorts of backgrounds, and even some dragon-related creatures (since they take many forms in many mythologies around our own world, let alone the fantasy realms). Great question, [Mom]! I am really excited to know that you have an interest in joining! *hugs*

ECM Nymph looks okay, but is it anywhere on the list of potential to-do's? D&D classifies Nymphs as a type of Fey (Fae, Fairyfolk, Sylvans, etc.), and they are identified as spirits of nature in mythology. Because of that, I personally would consider them a faerie (kin or folk), and potentially part of that contest. Or, of course, you could wait until we get to that point on the CL... Which means you might be waiting a while.... Anyways, I commented on the Nymph ECM page potential. Please see that comment.

Sorry I am not around much, guys. I am hoping to change that soon. I have been doing a lot of work on my own things, and on some RP content concepts that I am seeking representation for.
*loves Elftown and misses her*

I have a semi-connection now, so I can be on every so often again. Starting a new job, hoping to find a place to live (again), and hoping to make money doing what I love: art and writing. Wish me luck!

On that note, I wish all entrants in the ECM Dragon the best of luck! I will keeping an eye on the new entries, and can't wait to see what all of you have in store for us. You all rock! x.o)
-will

2007-10-27 [Skydancer]: Nymphs are not fairies, and dnd is not the reality of human mythology. Nymphs are the immediate spirits of the life of a place. Those that "are" the spirits of the trees, plants, waters, rocks, and places of a natural area. A nymph such as a hammadryad may be a host to fairy folk, but they are definately two different species, according to everything I know about them. Of course real fairies, in mythology are generally not friendly to man and in fact tend to be quite dangerous if not downright lethal :) Just my opinion from what I know of course.

2007-10-27 [Skydancer]: I will if I can keep my energies up dig out some of my books and references and see what I can put up as actual legendary and mythological spirits and individual cultural information. Most of my knowledge is celtic, briton, germantic, norse, irish and of course native american. It would be very interesting to me, if we could have some serious input from natives of the various countries and what they might be able to find in their own libraries from their own legends and tales of their people. :)

2007-10-28 [windowframe]: I agree with Skydancer, nymphs and faeries are different, they have their origins in different cultures and myth-sets. I was going to comment on D&D, but I see Skydancer beat me to that too. <3

2007-10-28 [Skydancer]: Well, D&D is a venerable game system, but basically none of it is based on fact or real cultural legends and myth. Its a little like taking World of Warcraft as the basis for information about World War Two.

2007-10-28 [windowframe]: You mean people didn't ride gryphons to bomb behind enemy lines in WWII?? Drat. I've been deceived. ._.

2007-10-28 [Skydancer]: well, heres the thing as I see it. This is suppose to be, from what I have been reading, about "real" dragons, mages, elves, fairies, etc, etc, etc. I wonder how many folk realize just how little of what is out there in fantasy art has any relation to the "real" thing. Vampires for instance. Not real at all except for the vampire bat. Not even legendary. Probably the nearest thing to a vampire are the fox women of oriental legend. And they do not drink blood. The whole concept of immortality through blood is one, a pure invention by a writer, two, expounded and developed upon by other writers, and three... based on a christian theme, which is in reality, a very small percentage of the actual religions out there.

2007-10-28 [windowframe]: Which means that 'vampire' falls under the category of 'modern myth'. But I don't see how that makes it any less a myth, or gives it a lower status than long established myths.

2007-10-28 [Skydancer]: Because its not myth. Its a fantasy story by a fantasy author, not from the fabric, history and tales of a culture, which is what a legend or myth is. If you accept that as the basis of myth, then Yoda is a mythic figure. Its not about status, its about traditions. And legends and myths have established traditions for generation upon generations. Accept vampires if you wish, but in doing so what you are really doing is saying that a few authors fantasy, which they themselves say is fantasy, are the truth of your past. Legends and Myth are not fantasy, they are taken, and told, and taught, as the reality of a culture. Tales to keep them alive, or to teach moral lessons, or to learn important truths about surviving in a given society. It just really depends on what these references are to be. Are they about the truth of legendary and mythic creatures, or are they just references to fantasy literature and art? Or some where in between? There is a huge amount of material out there about vampires, and its all "fanfic" or direct fantasy stories by fantasy authors who make it quite clear they are authors, not legendary historians. Shrug.

2007-10-28 [Skydancer]: Actually I only spoke up using vampires as an easy example. The exact same thing applies to modern books on fairie, or dragons, or elves, or what have you. What I really was after was to start a discussion on just what this reference was going to be about. :)

2007-10-28 [nehirwen]: I wasn't thinking at all about D&D when I made the ECM Nymph... I just thought they're the spirits of nature etc, according to the Greek mythology. I would love to see [Skydancer] to dig up some information out of his books and references to share with us :) I will go to the library as well ^^ *loves to see there are more people around interested in Nymphs*

2007-10-28 [Skydancer]: I will do that, I was just researching oriental foxes and norse elves. Which actually are pretty much what people think of as fairies today. Little people under the hills, live in underground halls, under trees, etc, the elves that is.

2007-10-28 [nehirwen]: I appreciate that ^^ I'm really curious in what you will come up with :)

2007-10-28 [windowframe]: So to be a myth, it has to have been aroud for X amount of time? And Who decides who old it has to be before it suddenly counts as a myth? The reason most myths didn't start as stories written down was because when they were made, there was no writing. So they became part of an oral tradition instead. If there had been writing, they would have been part of a literary tradition - as happened with older myths as soon as writing was developed. The vampiric myth has evolved in much the same way as ancient myths. Stories get retold, retold and retold, and as that happens, they evolve. That's why there are so many versions of some of the ancient myths. Just because a story doesn't come from the period that one traditionally expects of myth, doesn't mean it isn't myth. Myth is not history, it is fantasy. And you seem to be suggesting that all people like Bram Stoker wanted to do was tell a pretty fantasy story, as if there's no moral aspect to his work.

Every myth has a beginning. There was a point for every myth where it wasn't part of a culture, or a history, it became so because people repeated it. If people talked of Yoda in the same way they talked of vampires, they yes, actually, I would happily accept Yoda as a mythic figure. As is, they don't. But they do talk about vampires in the same way they talk about Gorgons and chimeras. It has become myth, just like the plight of Achilles became myth.

2007-10-28 [Skydancer]: Like I have said, if you choose to incorporate the vampire concept into your life that up to you. But I do not believe you have the right to simply rewrite the flow of human history for everyone else. Do you? I know I don't. Historical truth is the basis for all humankind. Not a fantasy book. Not for me.

2007-10-28 [Skydancer]: Tell you what, thinking about it. Lets examine another group that revolve around a fanasy book, perhaps one that is not such a trigger for you. How about GOR? There are quite a few people out there that have adopted it into their lives, live a "gorean" lifestyle and do a great deal on the web, in rp and have written up quite lot of material to support their concept. Is that a valid myth then? Now remember, GOR is another planet, a "counter earth" on the opposite side of the sun. So all this totally ignores our probes, our mapping of the solar system, etc. Yet they are quite convinced that its perfectly ok to follow a code that enslaves, dominates, binds and exalts strength over any other virtue. GOR is one hundred percent fiction. Thousands of people however follow that artificial lifestyle. Which by the way in its extreme form supports kidnapping, rape, training by force to personal service, etc. At what point do we as a community or even as individual souls, support the harming of other beings? Including people? To make a fictional character part of the basis of your life, or worse, to attempt to force it onto others as a reality is not, in my mind, a good thing. Shrugs. Just my opinion of course. But I am a fantasy artist, I don't live in my paintings, they are just an interpretation of things I see around me in my own chosen way of expression. At no point would I ever expect anyone to believe any of it is real. In fact, I would be a bit horrified if they did.

2007-10-28 [Sunrose]: This marathon is supposed to be about creatures, to make the best informational page about them as can be found online. Whether they are truth, legend, myth, fabrications, etc: all approaches should be given attention.

I think we're losing sight of this intention when we start to combat each other what is truth and what is not: Even historical truth can be debated and no one here can force another to take on a belief/opinion/etc.
So let's not get lost in that issue and respect everyone for whatever they do or do not believe in :)

2007-10-28 [Skydancer]: Sounds good to me, as the entire reason I brought things up was the further definition of the purpose of these references as stated :)

2007-10-28 [Sunrose]: As for the question whether or not to place nymphs among the fea, wikipedia separates them. If I do a Google search for images they get very distinctive results.
So I think it's OK for us to separate them as well :)

2007-10-28 [windowframe]: I don't believe I said anything about re-writing the flow of human history for everyone else. And re-reading my comment, I'm not really sure where you got that impression from, and it certainly wasn't the impression I intended to give. Nor did I say that I incorporate the vampire concept into my life. Personally, I don't care about vampires, I'm just interested in what counts as myth or not, and why. So no, vampires aren't a particular "trigger" for me, and I don't really know where you got the idea that they were from. My previous comments stand for whatever example you give.

Old mythos incorporates into it's beliefs a geocentric model of the universe and many other "facts" which modern science disproves, if your point against gorean "myth" is that it goes against modern scientific evidence, then that is a point against all myth. Leaning on extremism is also an invalid form of argument. Everything in it's extreme will allow concepts that "normal" people find horrifying. As for making fictional characters part of your life - this is exactly how myth started out. At some point people actually believed the stories of Achilles.

But this discussion has gone off-topic and is just cluttering the page now. If you really want to continue this discussion, we should take it off this page. :)

2007-10-28 [Skydancer]: Nope, I got the clarification I wanted, thanks :) I think I will suggest though that sources be quoted and a bit of good information on just where the offered material comes from would be a great idea. For the sake of accuracy.

2007-10-28 [Sunrose]: Aye, so far I think sources have been quoted (as in linking to the original articles). Artsie probably knows more about this though :)

2007-10-29 [Sunrose]: So what do we need to discuss then? :P

2007-10-29 [Sunrose]: Hmm, I don't want to tread on your enthusiasm, but I don't agree with this idea.
The goal is to collect information, not to discuss the information. And we want/need people to collect it, not to discuss, fight or only talk about it: work needs to be done.
The marathon shouldn't be made complicated. If there is a question about a creature, it would be better asked at the creature page.
If there is something that needs to be discussed, it would only be the procedure and similar issues. For this we already have the crew-page...

2007-10-29 [Sunrose]: If you think discussions will get more people to create the work,  then you should pursue that :)
I'd just like to keep the rest of the pages more on topic, that's the main issue for me.. :)

2007-12-21 [sea nymph]: the pages for mostly that I find are on topic its just there is no way to tell is a wiki page is really active or a contest is really active unless you just go by the dates people wrote last mabey we should start flagging or pointing out those dead pages!

2007-12-21 [Sunrose]: Just because people haven't spoken for a while, doesn't mean a wiki is dead. It's kind of impossible to know, unless you ask the owner (if still active) and/or leave a comment asking for watchers to inform you.
And even when the wiki is not active anymore, doesn't mean it can't be reactivated.
If people stop linking to wiki's they consider to be dead, then you'd not have a big chance of ending up there..

2008-02-21 [Teufelsweib]: Now there are badges for the participants in the ECM-art competitions, but are they also distributed for the photography section?
I was wondering, since there have been no badges given to the participants for the ECM-vampire photography...

2008-02-21 [Teufelsweib]: oh ok! it's just because someone asked me whether they would be getting badges or not, and I didn't know it myself either.
you're welcome! ^^

2008-02-22 [Teufelsweib]: Yeah, I was thinking about posting it in the crew forum, but I thought it would be better to post here at first =D

2008-09-02 [nehirwen]: Next Creature Session: ECM Werewolf
Now open! Deadline: None set yet.

why is it tagged as 'open'?

2008-11-26 [*Phoenix*]: sooooo...Can I write up a story and an intro for the Werewolf or can only the listed writers do that?

2008-11-26 [nehirwen]: Yes you can do that, and there are no listed writers.

2008-11-27 [*Phoenix*]: okie! Thanks! I just didn't want to spend my time on something that I couldn't do, ya know?

2008-11-27 [nehirwen]: I understand. :) Have fun writing!

2008-11-29 [*Phoenix*]: mkay! I will!!! XD

2009-03-19 [arthemis_]: Isn't it an idea to make a ECM Mermaids?

2009-03-19 [nehirwen]: The ECM Merfolk has been prepared already, it will take some time till it will be opened though. :)

2009-03-21 [arthemis_]: whoot! :D I like mermaids :D What about Ghosts?

2009-03-26 [nehirwen]: It will be set up. ;)

2009-07-02 [Lord Josmar]: Quick question. The Contest Dates confused me as they say it runs from 05-06-2009 and to close: 01-10-2009. It means 01-10-2010 right?

2009-07-02 [windowframe]: No, it means the 01-10-2009. As in, the 1st of October, 2009.

2009-07-02 [Lord Josmar]: Oooh. sorry I misread it. I go dislexic(sp) everyonce in awhile.

2009-07-02 [nehirwen]: I've changed the date format now, so people won't get confused anymore.

2009-10-21 [9jlriexqk,ktpk]: I can give you a story if you want..

2009-10-21 [nehirwen]: That would be great! :)

2010-03-07 [arthemis_]: If you make a ECM creature contest yourself (like suggested above) is it ok to copy past some of the stuff that is already been written by other contest-makers? Or do you have to write everything yourself? And is somebody already busy with Ghost or Mermaid? Because I think I can manage making a page.

2010-03-08 [windowframe]: I think mermaid and ghost have both already been done, but you're more than welcome to make one yourself, if you do, of course you can copy everything from a previous session (that's what we do), just make sure you change all the 'centaur's to whatever creature you want to feature. :P Also, please only use the latest ECM session as a template, as the older contests are out of date due to rule changes, etc. 

2010-03-09 [arthemis_]: That's cool :D I'll see if I can manage to make a site this weekend. *writes it on her to-do list*

2010-03-09 [arthemis_]: That's cool :D I'll see if I can manage to make a site this weekend. *writes it on her to-do list*

Edit: I see that both pages are empty, I'll start with Ghost and Mermaid.

2010-03-09 [windowframe]: You see the part where I said that mermaid and ghost have already been done? That means they've already been done. ;) You're more than welcome to make a session for a creature we don't have set up yet, but there's really no point in doing those two again. And it would be a waste of time and effort on your part. :(

2010-03-12 [arthemis_]: You thought they had been done, and the pages are empty. But I probably cannot see them, because they haven't been put up yet? How can I - we - know which pages are already done / are being done? Is there a list?

2010-03-13 [windowframe]: No, I KNOW they've been done, because I can see them - YOU just happened to look for a different spelling of the page name or something. Perhaps you tried "mermaid" instead of "merfolk" or something like that.

"How can I - we - know which pages are already done / are being done?"
You can ask, and we can tell you - but that only works if you believe us when we answer you. ;) :P

2010-03-13 [arthemis_]: Don't get offended, look at your own post and see how I got confused :) Anyways, I'm busy with ECM Angel, I hope that's ok :)

2010-03-13 [windowframe]: ... *blank stare* what part of my post makes you think I'm offended? Please, please tell me, because I'm getting slightly fed up of people thinking I'm offended when I'm not, and I just can't see myself what it is I write that makes them think that. I even put smilies in to show I'm not annoyed, and it still doesn't work! >_< (NO, no, don't worry, I'm still not offended, annoyed or otherwise upset, see -->> :D :P ;) :) :3) You people just baffle me. X_x

2010-03-13 [arthemis_]: Wait, I'll explain to you in a message :) Otherwise we are spamming this page full and that isn't the point of this page. And sorry, I do not deal well with capitals, then I think people are shouting at me :) Sowwy

2010-03-13 [windowframe]: I use them because I'm too lazy to use the italics tag. ;) *glances at huge number of unread messages* Yeaaaaaah. 4 comments isn't a spam problem (since before that you're asking questions it's good for everyone to see the answer to). ;)

2010-03-13 [arthemis_]: Done with ECM Angel, who can I make happy with it?
Ok: I got confused because you said: 'I think Mermaids and Ghosts haven't been done'. And when I looked, I saw an empty page, so I thought: hey, they haven't been done yet. Sorry for that. It's not that I don't believed you, it's because you said: 'I think' and not 'I'm sure' or 'Mermaids and Ghosts have already been done'. See what I mean?
Second: I thought because you use capitals that you were annoyed with me, I'm not very good dealing with annoyance, because I'm a sucker like that.
Third: I don't think anyone is interested in my explanation of why I got confused, so I thought I was better of telling you in a message. *sigh* So long for initiative.
Anyway: ECM Angel is done. There. Hope I could help.

2010-03-13 [windowframe]: 1. Links would be helpful, but I'm sure I can figure out how to get there. ;) I'll go check them now to see if they're fine, and if they are I'll put them on the page we have for listing future ECM contests. :)
2. You said the second point already. :P
3. Oh don't be so melodramatic, no one is criticising your initiative. :P

2010-03-13 [arthemis_]: I like being dramatic, I'm brutally honest in writing down my emotions. And I guess I'm completely stubborn now, but where can I see the ECM Ghost? There is nothing under ECM Ghost or ECM Ghosts or do I have to look for ECM Dead people? (just kidding).
Found ECM Merfolk so I believe you on that (inserted sarcasm).

2010-03-13 [windowframe]: It's under spectre or something like that (I can't remember the exact link, and I'm too lazy/busy to go check, sorry <_<). We had a discussion about whether certain creatures (ghosts, spectres, etc.) really needed to each have their own session, and decided that they're too similar to run separate contests for each of them, so we stuck them together. 

2010-03-13 [arthemis_]: No idea what spectres are :P Guess I didn't watch enough Ghostwisperer :D *time for wikipedia!*

2011-03-21 [kians mummy]: Opened: 16th June 2010 - Finish: 1st October 2010!


it should be closed by now

2011-05-13 [pegasus1000]: Has anyone though of doing an annual ecm reference. eg: the yearly ecm dragon?

2011-06-29 [Cillamoon]: Shouldn't the closed ECM Photo sessions be moved to the ECM Closed Sessions' Submissions or is that just the archived spot where it is?